In 2017, scientist and pianist John C. O’Leary III raised more than $5,000 to record an album about neuroscience, and while CRISPR was meant to help break down barriers between science and society, it was still about a community (albeit one built around modern scientific discovery).
Four years later, O’Leary III—pianist for revered Tampa Bay trio La Lucha—looked inside for a personal new album, The Sundering, which exposes all that makes O’Leary III feel vulnerable. “...memories of childhood, snapshots of joy, of nostalgia, separation, friendship, existential ponderings, andat times confusion and doubt,” a press release says. “Ultimately the resolution of internal conflict helps find that place where we can sit.” And for his Arbors Records debut, O’Leary III got help from Snarky Puppy’s Shaun Martin who joins in on three cuts; Martin, a 9-time Grammy-winner will be in St. Pete for this Sunday show where the duo takes to a pair of grand pianos in Hough Hall for what could be one of the best jazz shows of 2021.
Read a Q&A about the release and how O’Leary III linked up with Martin below.
Shaun Martin & John C. O’leary III: An Intimate Evening At The Piano. Sunday, Nov. 7, 5 p.m. $25-$48. Hough Hall at Palladium Theater, St. Petersburg. mypalladium.org
How did you come to meet Shaun and agree to work on his new record together? What did you need him to bring to the sessions from a producer standpoint?
Man, this is a relationship 8 years in the making! I met Shaun for the first time at crowbar in 2013. Snarky Puppy was releasing their album We Like It Here. After the concert I went to say hi and how much I love his playing and that he inspired me to practice. His response was, “I have to go practice too!” His humbleness, and dedication to his craft struck me right away.
Then I got to talk to him again at the GroundUP Music Festival in 2017. Mark Feinman, Alejandro Arenas, and I, La Lucha, we go every year. It was the very first year of the festival and he had a show on the late night Saturday, early Sunday morning, called Shaun Martin‘s Gogo party. It went from like 2 to 5 AM, something crazy like that. By 4:30 AM we were all dancing and singing in the lobby of the hotel!!!! It was amazing!
Then in October of that same here, we were billed on the same day and happened to share the same trailer at the Clearwater Jazz Holiday. He was playing with Jason Miles’ tribute to weather report and was coming in as we were going out.
And we went back to GroundUP music festival in 2018, 2019, & 2020, saying hi and catching his sets.
A week, or so, after GroundUP 2020, he had a gig at the Dunedin Brewery with his trio, and I went to see him perform. We had an extended chat after the show and exchanged numbers.
When I got the opportunity to record this album a few months later, Immediately thought of Shaun and I couldn’t be more thrilled that he was willing and able to be such a big part of this project.
As a producer I needed him to bring his ears! I know it’s obvious, but I really mean it. To hear my music from a big picture point of view and help me put everything together. I’ve been living with this music for a while, so it’s easy to overlook simple things, and to get stuck in the process of putting an album together. He helped me decide on takes, decide on arrangements. Lots of decision making, and just being able to triangulate with him as we execute ideas. It was truly a dream come true to share those four days in the studio with him.
The songs on The Sundering cover a lot of time, from your childhood to now, right? Can you say specifically what parts?
The songs in the Sundering reflect a certain feeling more than a certain time period. Though, the moment that feeling was the strongest was when I moved to America at 12-years-old in 1998. That feeling is the feeling of being split, divided, almost ripped apart. That’s what it means to sunder, to split apart.
As child, I was an American in Mexico. I was born and raised in Mexico. My name is John Clarence O’Leary III. It’s not a very Mexican name! I didn’t quite fit in. And here in America, I was culturally very Mexican. I didn’t fit in her either. I wrote in my liner notes:
“I didn’t have a clear origin story. Despite being Mexican and American, I wasn’t all one or the other. It’s like being simultaneously connected and disconnected. My mosaic composition gave me incredible economic and cultural benefits, and at the same time, it has made it harder to find an identity, to see myself in others. Perhaps identity is not just about knowing who you are, it’s also about who you are in relation to your community. It’s the space between you and the people next to you and the shared relationship to your language, land, history, and traditions.”
I also felt split between science and music, my parents, cultures, countries, languages, etc.
Ultimately, you want listeners to listen to the record and find some time to just sit still. What’s it been like for you to take some of those thoughts from your time sitting still and work through the joy, nostalgia, separation and friendship and then put them to tape?
The journey was amazing. COVID is horrible, but the opportunity to work on my art full time for one year, was amazing. All I did was write music, practice, think, reflect, enjoy my family. I developed so much during that period. If I didn’t know what I needed to grow, I do now.
Talking generally about the three collaborations (“Focus,” “All the Things You Are” and “C Jam Blues”)—I know that Shaun produced the record, but how did these three cuts end up making the record?
That’s a great question! The plan was for us to play "Focus," and we did. At some point we were like, why don’t we play a tune, loosen up a little. We played "C Jam Blues," just for fun. Unbeknownst to us, our incredible engineer, Bill Moss, recorded the whole thing. Bill is a genius, and a great person. He co-produces with you. He’s recorded so many great jazz musicians, and he’s a bass player. He understands the music. He sees what you’re going for. He’s a great whole piece thinker as well as little details analyzer. You can give him the scores, and he’ll read along and mark sections and overlay them to Pro Tools. His editing skills are beyond belief. So we listened back, and it was swingin’! We said, heck, why not do another one. So we played All The Things You Are. You can hear throughout these three recordings, not only Shaun’s great improvisational skills, but also his accompaniment skills, which are insanely good.
“C Jam Blues” is obviously a little more straightforward as far as the vibe, but with “Focus” and “All the Things You Are” both clocking in at about 7 and 9 minutes long, respectively. (“All the Things” feels more playful, and “Focus” is more dramatic). Can you talk to me about the conversation you’re trying to have and the themes on both cuts ?
The whole thing is an experiment, and these recordings are the results of those experiments. We’ve never played together. I very rarely get to play two pianos. I mean almost never. So we just wanted to see how we can arrange these songs. See how we can gel together with the feel and time. How we listen to each other. How we react to what’s going on. The chemistry was so good.
From a technical standpoint the idea for us was to make two pianos sound like one. We separated the duties. One had the the melody the other had the accompaniment. Sometimes one had the bass line and the other had the chords and melody.
From an arrangement point of view, we winged it, hahahaha. There wasn’t much talked ahead of time. Focus was more planned, since it’s not a standard, yet! But even them it was minimal, like when we were moving to the next section and how to end it.
You obviously have the CRISPR album, but could you talk to me a little more about “Xenographic Barrier,” and whether or not it’s related to your upbringing as a kid or to your background as a scientist?
"Xenographic Barrier" is about the pandemic. Xeno- I think is greek for foreign, or of different origin. And -graphic means to combine form, put together. So the xerographic barrier is the ability of viruses to infect different hosts. My understanding is that viruses typically need to engage with a surface receptor on a cell to be internalized and infect the cell and reproduce. So due to the chemistry of those virus protein to cell protein interactions there are limitations to how many different species a virus can infect and the potency of those infections.
Every time new DNA or RNA is made there are little mistakes that happen. These are called mutations. Most of these are of no consequence, but ever so often one of these mutations happens to allow for a gain of function. So for example, a virus strain which was previously unable to bind to a human cell can now do so if given the opportunity. So you have an infected animal with a virus that just gained the ability to infect people, and that animal happens to be in contact with a person and a virus can make a species jump.
Scientifically I think it’s fascinating. Radiolab made an episode where they talk about the species jump of the AIDS virus, called “Patient Zero.”
What do you hope people learn about you after hearing this record?
Music gives me hope, and energy, and creativity, and sometimes it makes me sad. Other times it inspires me. Music is one of the most human things we do, and it allows us to be in touch with ourselves. I think good music allows people to find a piece of themselves in it. So my hope is that people can find a piece of themselves in my music.
What should attendees expect at the concert this weekend?
A good time! Shaun and I have so much fun together, and we are excited to bring the audience a long on this journey.
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