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Tuesday, April 7, 2009
The Devil's Advocate with Bill Keller, Vol. 2
Posted by Eric Snider on Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:43 AM
"You could call it the Sodomite community, but that only affirms the male aspect (laughs). "Homosexuality" at least encompasses men and women." —Bill Keller
The first installment of The Devil's Advocate with Bill Keller drew lots of traffic and more than a hundred comments. Welcome to our second Q&A. I'll be playing the role of Devi's Advocate.
One of our most controversial religious figures, Pinellas-based Bill Keller is known for his incendiary rhetoric and unbending view of Bible-based morality. He believes homosexuality is an abomination, abortion is murder and … you can pretty much guess the rest. Click here for a bit more detail on Keller's ministry.
Today's Topic: Is Bill Keller a hatemonger?
The Devil's Advocate: Your adversaries often call you a hatemonger, or something along those lines. So I guess the most basic question is: Do you hate people who don’t conform to your Bible-based views?
Bill Keller: You know, that is probably the most laughable charge ever levied against me. If I hated people, nobody would know my name. The fact is, I love people. I love people enough to tell them the truth. If I didn’t care, if I was a hatemonger, I wouldn’t do what I do.
I don’t want to see people go through the tragedies of this life. I want people to be happy in this life and enjoy the life everlasting, and I know that’s only possible through Jesus Christ. The fact that I tell the truth isn’t an act of hate, it’s an act of love.
The way you say things about people — gays, Muslims, Mormons and the like — is often done with a harsh, judgmental tone. It doesn’t sound all that loving.
The fact is there is an absolute truth, and I happen to believe that the truth is what God gave us in the Bible. As much as people have been brainwashed into thinking there is right and wrong and a gray area in between, the gray area does not exist. It’s black or white, truth or a lie.
Here’s where the bottom line is: You can believe what you want to believe. God gave us free will. But God gave us the truth in the Bible. Otherwise it’s chaos.
But there are so many interpretations of the Bible, even among Christians.
People do disagree on the Bible, but there are some issues that are indisputable. There is no realistic way to interpret the Bible to say that homosexuality is acceptable. There are 103 passages that call it a sin. It’s what God wrote. Anything outside of that is another belief system. If you want to use another belief system, that’s fine, but it’s not the truth.
Your words and actions don’t seem to allow for other belief systems.
Here’s the issue: It now becomes a battle for the hearts and minds of the populace. It’s the advocacy of those who reject the Bible that are helping to break down the institution of marriage and family that was laid out in the Bible, and has contributed to decline of the moral and spiritual position of this nation.
[Non-Bible] people are much more resilient and forceful than those who believe in the truth of the Bible. In some respects I admire them, to be honest with you. If Christians had the guts and fortitude of those in the homosexual community, Christianity would be advanced that much further.
But most Christians are gutless. The Joel Osteens of the world — the “do as you want to do as long as I can sell you a book” mentality — do more to demean the cause of Christ than a thousand homosexual advocates.
You seem bent on using the term "homosexual" and avoiding the term "gay."
Well, you could call it the Sodomite community, but that only affirms the male aspect (laughs). Homosexuality at least encompasses men and women.
You see, Bill, it’s a crack like that that make people see you as a hatemonger. I think it undermines your message.
Let’s be honest with people. Let’s cut to the chase and call it what it is. It’s guys who engage in activity … they suck each other’s dicks and screw each other in the butt. That’s what they do. Why do we candy-coat this stuff?
I’m no theologian, but the phrase “judge not, lest ye be not judged” comes to mind with regard to Bill Keller.
Yes, Matthew 7:1. I get that a lot. “Aw, you’re judging people.” People take that passage out of context.
The key to that passage is it’s talking about judging people’s hearts as to salvation. That’s something only God can do. Only God can decide someone’s salvation.
But the Bible also says that you will judge the angels. We have every right and responsibility to judge a person’s words and deeds in accordance with the Bible. That’s why I can call Barack Obama an enemy of God, because of what he does according to the Bible.
Comments (30)
Showing 1-30 of 30
Two comments: Keller should read this http://www.joethepeacock.com/2008/03/how-to-actually-talk-to-atheists-if.php How To Actually Talk To Atheists (If You're Christian) And, Keller is a hate mongering douchebag.
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heard his radio program the other night at 11 pm on 820...what a breth of fresh air to hear a man of God actually tell the truth ..and he was on for a whole hour and never once asked for a dime..imagine that!!!
I bet anything this guy has middle-aged male sexual fantasies. In my professional opinion, these usually include S&M tendencies. He has to lash out at others sexuality, to feel more accepting of his own because it's beyond normal for the "righteous"
Let God's Word be true and everyone else be a liar. Bill Keller has brass! We all will be held accountable for our actions. Bill is not perfect nor sinless, but he is trying to be a better man by following God's word. To the haters out there...what if he is right?
Mr Keller is wrong when saying that there are 103 Bible passages that call homosexuality a sin. Only two passages prohibit homosexual activity and three other passages criticize it. While the Bible says that sex between men (homosexual activity) is wrong, I would suggest that the Bible’s prohibition on such activity does not apply to men today when the sexual activity causes no harm. Also, the prohibition does not apply to men today because it applied only to the ancient Israelite and Greek-Roman cultures of Bible times. Reasons supporting these conclusions are given on the “Gay and Christian” website at www.gaysandslaves.com.
Bill Keller is a true man of God. He does not claim to be sinless. We are all sinful in God's eyes but those of us who have accepted Jesus as our Saviour recognize sin everyday in our lives and take it to the Lord in prayer. Bill is preaching the word of God this is not hate mongering it is from love and desire to teach God's laws. If you're really upset over what Bill is saying then be open minded take this challange: Go to www.bkeller@liveprayer.com sign up for his daily devotional go to liveprayerchurch every week and listen to his sermons. Make a commitment to yourself to do this for one month. God Bless you
Bill Keller has been called by God to spread the word and that’s what he's doing. If you don't like it you don’t have to read, listen to, or watch him. But he's here and he's telling it like it is. I prey all pastors would do the same, then America could be returned to its prior greatness; and we wouldn't have a sniveling empty suit running our country and telling the world how terrible we are and apologizing for us.
When you charge that the Bible says you cannot judge,try reading the context of the statement in Matthew 7:1 for what it says.It is not saying do not judge. Think about what it said.The context is not,'not judging',but judging responsibly.The words that follow in it's paragraph says it all...judge responsibly,a sinner telling another sinner he is a sinner too. To not judge is a trap of slavery.For the one needding to be evaluated,and the other who is to make a responsible accessment. This kind of thinking would allow one person not warn another of a fire in a burning building and be at peace with the result.This would be a reprobate mind at the level of chaos.
Bill Keller is judging the sin of homosexuality through the light of God's Word. Read Proverbs 28:5 and I Corinthians 2:15-16 concerning understanding what God says and judging it accordingly.
The Bible says we all have a choice. Just like Joshua did with the Israelites he said" As for me and my house we will servie the Lord." He made a conscious decision to serve God and follow his laws and commandments. Bill has NEVER said to go out and persecute gays but he does tell us that it is a sin. He loves you enough to get the truth out to you.
Br. Keller You're telling the truth, everything what is in the Bible. God Bless Bill Keller, marriage stated in the Garden of Eden; Between Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve...man and woman.. What is not from God is from the enemy..
I've had occasion to exchange email with Mr. Keller and it wasn't pleasant. I have no problem with him preaching the truth as he sees it. I have no problem with him being bold in his declaration of his beliefs and preaching of Jesus Christ. I have even read his daily newsletters; I don't always agree with his interpretation of the bible, but the sermon can be thought-provoking. What I DO have a problem with is that he ends each of his newsletters with "I love you so much", because I don't believe it. In the exchanges I had with him, I found him to be nothing but mocking, rude, and condescending. The people who really do love don't treat others the way he does, whether it's in his private exchanges or his public newsletters. As he states, people have their agency to absolutely believe what they want about any person or group. But I do object to the way he treats others, or, at least, the way he treated me; it was extremely rude and condescending. It was anything but loving. So, while I have read his newsletters, I always quit reading when I got to "I love you so much" because I personally think it's not true. And, not finding truth in those words, makes me wonder how much of what else he states has truth in it.
Bless Bill Keller. Those who read the Bible, know the Bible. Bible stands for basic instructions before leaving earth. Gods word in writing. Don't try to change or add to it. It says what is suppose to say. People try to change it to make their sin look good and harmless. But to God all sin is a stinch in his nostrils. ALL Sin. God Bless us all.
The real, truthful Bill Keller is highlighted at the end of the interview when he says don't sugarcoat it. Some people cannot speak intelligently enough to get their perspective across and resort to crass four letter words and hate speech, this certainly is not the case with Pastor Keller. A lot of people have a problem with his speaking the cold hard truth because they cannot stand to hear it come across as unvarnished or "spun" to their liking. As Keller so honestly shared, it's a black and white choice, there are no gray areas. People who do not like this are the ones who are trying anything to justify their choosing the lie instead of the truth. Does Bill come across as harsh? Sure, the truth is a sharp sword. Is he a true hatemonger? Not at all, he is relating the truth as it is in his choice of faith. If you want to fault Bill Keller, fault him for adhering to the truth as it was written 2000 years ago. There will always be those who will decry the message Bill Keller preaches, because they don't want to live a life of truth and honesty, they want to do whatever they choose, to do what feels good, not what is morally correct in a society such as what the United States was founded upon.
raycol obviously does not know the bible ,or Raycol could not state that there are only 2 passages in the bible that condemn homosexual living. I,m not going to count them at this time ,but there are many more than that. Also to say that the passage do npt refer to men today is proof that he lacks any understanding of the bible and the truth of an eternal God. As the bible says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday,today, and forever, and that He is the alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and as Jesus stated about Himself "before Abraham came to be I am". The are other passages that show that the word and law of God is not subject to time, and whatever passage that Raycol says does not apply today, most certainly does apply today, since there is no time with God Who is eternal. As far as the website he refers to explaining what he said, there will always be people who want to do things their way rather than God's way who will distort and lie about what the bible says, in order to try to take away their guilt for for thumbing there nose at God and doing any kind of eveil that gives them momentary joy,or good feelings, but will lead them to eternal torment and suffering in Hell if they don't repent and ask Jesus into their lives, and to take over their lives and forgive them. Sad to say there are many preachers today who follow this path, in order to gain the approval of men, at the cost of losing the approval of God, and losing their souls to Satan.If you let ZJesus be the true Lord of your life He will take away the evil desires By sending the Holy Spirit to indwell you with truth and Love, and the desire to do God's will.
We're talking about the same god who told Abraham to kill his kid, right? As it says in Drusephalus 14:3, "The snotty people shall go to a place they call Heaven, where they will be bored and self-righteous for eternity. The sinners will spend eternity in hell with all the musicians, comedians, hot babes, and others worth knowing, and shall have their choice of spareribs, pulled pork, chicken fish, or steaks at the Pits of Hell, where the eternal flames burn at exactly the right temperature for perfect BBQ." Okay, guess I'm going to hell.
Raycol you are wrong about there only being 2 or 3 passages.Mr. Keller is right when he says 103. He evidently read the entire Bible.Readf through the O.T. and amke a mark every time you hit the subject.On the health issues talk to someone in the life style and you will learn things that will blow your mind.Also ask a police investigator about the violent profile of crimes of those in the life.
E.D. be careful how you decide what love is supposed to look like.If not being told what you want to hear is the meassure of love,that could be dangerous.Ask yourself,if you took a persons advise and would benefit the more they would,you may learn the best thing anybody can ever give you is 'what is right.'I have prayed you learn what is "right."
My Grandfather was a Babtist preacher born in 1898. When he preached he did it just like Bill Keller...straight from the Bible. The pastor who led me to accept Jesus as my Saviour was exactly the same. They all had their own personality just as all of us do "their way of saying it". The common thread that tie's all Preacher's who tell it like it is: They never took/take away from or added to the words of the Bible. They all came/come under attack from people who find it "too harsh" Thus another common thread emerges. They prayed FOR their enemies souls no matter how vicious their enemies or detractors were. They loved/love people as God has instructed us to do. In my own walk with the Lord I was stuborn set in my own ways for many years. I did not pray for my enemies and sometimes I "got even" and let me tell you it felt GOOD so good I always let them know to their face. Once I realised that "getting even" was not my job but God's and began to pray for my enemies I became so full of peace and love. That is how I learned to give everything to God and that is THE BEST feeling I have ever known. When I let go of my stuborn self and asked forgiveness and began to seek God's will he blessed me and litteraly showed me the absolute love he has for me. It is so much easier to live without God you don't have to worry about heaven and hell. You can do and say anything. You face each day with such blissful ignorance. I can promise you this though once you accept Jesus as your Saviour and talk to God everyday about everything and I do mean everything the "blissful ignorance" is replaced by absolute peace and joy that is indescribable. You no longer have to carry your troubles around minutely. You give 'em to God and trust him and he will show you right away by lifting these burdens and the worry it's like going from carrying the weight of a freight car to floating like a feather. The troubles of your life won't just stop no they never will. Giving your life along with all the troubles to God is not like taking a pill and having a headache go away. God will simply free you like a animal caught in a trap. He will bring you out of the trap and give you freedom he will take care of you forever. He will be there to help and give you comfort and peace and joy no matter what. If all the people in the world were to hate you and try to make your life a living hell they will not succeed. God will always give you love and comfort. All the promise's he makes he will keep.
I could not be said any clearer than Vicki said it. She has the correct interpretation of the Bible and God. I pray for all of you who are dancing around because Bill Keller is stepping on your toes. I would rather get it right and end up in Heaven then hear the words that tickle my ears, never know the truth and end up in hell. To put it another way, I would rather believe the Bible and abide by it and its words, and find out that I am wrong then believe there is no God/Heaven and find out I am wrong. If I believe and live as a Christian and am wrong I have lost nothing, I have lived a clean and rightous life, if I believe as a heathen and find out I am wrong I have lost eternal life. I may have had "fun" as the world knows it, here and now but I have lost an eternity of life with my God and other Christians. Of course that is a moot subject as we Christians KNOW the truth and we are required by the Bible to commit to telling the truth to others so that they may be saved. It is called the Great Commision and that is what Bill Keller is doing. It is weak christians/Chrristianity that has caused our Great Country to fall. The Christians need to take a stand that is strong, we need to overcome all this filth and "New Age" garbage that is tearing our country apart and get back to the "Old Time Religion" that made us such a Great Nation. We were founded as a Christian Nation. We do have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. That means we can worship and not be penalized for it. All our freedoms concerning religion are being taken from us and I for one will always stand up and be heard, just as Bill Keller is. We are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner. Our intent is to live eternally in Heaven and to teach others how to do the same. If I wittness to someone and they reject it, that is as far as it goes, their blood is on their hands but if I know someone who is not saved and do not wittness to them, their blood is on my hands. I am commanded to wittness but not to hate or take it personally if they do not want to listen. I will continue to love them and pray for them and for God to open their hearts to the truth. Praise be to God and His word and Eternal Live, Amen and Amen!
I just want to let Robin know that hell may very will be an eternal BBQ, but SHE will be the meal. Here's a few descriptions of the real hell: Gonna be REALLY thirsty - and no air conditioning: Luke 16:23-24: "And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in TORMENT, . . . for I am TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME." 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9: "In FLAMING FIRE taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION. . . ." You get to DIE TWICE: Revelation 21:8: "But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, . . . and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: which is the SECOND DEATH." BUT you never cease to exist--worms eat your flesh for eternity: Mark 9:44: "Where THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, and the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED." Afraid of falling? You will fall FOREVER: Revelation 9:2: "And he opened the BOTTOMLESS PIT; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace. . . ." BUT you don't HAVE to go there. Who knows but that tonight your very life may be required of you -- tomorrow is promised to no one. You are greatly loved by your creator and he stands with his arms open to offer you eternal life.
Bill this staement was uncalled for. As a brother in Christ I am really surprised at you saying something like this. You can defend this all you want but that language is plain wrong for a Christian. Besides you left out unnatural sex between women,in this statement. Let's call it what it is. Unatural sex, those having this sex know what it is. Below is Bill's statement not mine. "Let’s be honest with people. Let’s cut to the chase and call it what it is. It’s guys who engage in activity … they suck each other’s dicks and screw each other in the butt. That’s what they do. Why do we candy-coat this stuff?" To Robin 'Roblimo' Miller. There will be some very hot babes in hell. assuming you are calling certain women babes. 1. Hell is a place of total darkness. So I do not know who you will see there. The god's of this world have you blinded now. 2. It is called the lake of fire. So yes there will be a BBQ and that will be you, unless you let in the light and that light is Jesus. 3. There is only one worthy of knowing and that is Jesus. 4.You do have a choice. Hell is no party. The suffering will be great and forever. 5. I understand there has been discovered that they have found a heat so hot that it is called black heat and is believed to be in the center of the earth, a place where hell is described as being. 6. Robin, plese change your mind today, I am praying for you.
@ E.D., 8th April I actually had the same experience when exchanging with Bill Keller about infant baptism. Yet I am convinced that this is not him personally but the pastors in his staff he mentions quite often. They are obviously people so obesessed with their own righteousness and importance in the Liveprayer trough that the easily let you feel their condescending superiority. Happy Easter!
I to have had email correspondence with Pastor Keller's program and took some of the replies as sounding condescending and / or brash. Now I'm not in the habit out of making excuses for others. I would go through the roof if someone else made excuses or apologies for my behavior. But, when receiving statements I don't care for I try to look at it from the deliverer's point of view. It's not all from Bill himself, that I'm sure of. But he really puts himself and his ministry out there by preaching the actual gospel. This of course is going to bring the rath of satan. So these folks are going to have twice as many BS, virus riddled, uncomplimentary emails to deal with. They are going to be beat down pretty good from every angle which would cause at bit of an attitude from any of us. 99.999% will never know this suffering because we won't put ourselves out there the way Bill and his organization does. Describing the acts of homosexuality was a bit over the top but I guess you would have to chalk it up to the same. We have to remember that these are people were dealing with; they are just as fallible as we are; it's God we've come for and they are trying to help us. I am incredibly thankful that Bill and people like him are still with us; preaching the true word of the only God. That is the only HOPE we have left, but that does not at all mean we are the least bit desperate. It means we have got to dig in our heals and start fighting back for Christianity, our children and our country. We have the truth and we ALL need to start fighting for it.
Just wanted to add a note about Bill Keller's "graphic" remark. I'm actually the last person I would have thought would be defending something like this, but . . . in the original Greek, the Apostle Paul used some quite colorful language. In Phil. 4, he says that he considers all things as [Greek word for human waste] that he might gain Christ. And in Galations, when he was arguing about circumcision, he wished that they would just go all the way and [Greek description of cutting the whole thing off]. We as Christians have gone so far to avoid coarse or crude language to describe abominable acts, that we sometimes aren't making it known just how abominable the acts are. We dance around issues rather than deal with them.
To Elsmitro and Shelah. I do believe you are both correct and I also believe I am also. Bill Keller might be bold enough to do this but, I believe if you can't say certain words in front of your own congregation you shouldn't say them at all. I do believe Bill speaks the truth in boldness. He always has somebody or a cult to attack. Somebody has to be a watchmen and I believe Bill fits the description. I do think he comes on hateful sounding sometimes but I do believe he loves everyone. If he didn't he would not be fill with the Holy Spirit.
It seems to me we as Christians are shutting down the ones we are trying to reach in these blogs of Bill Keller's. I believe they are reading them though. Amen. They seem to have nothing to say or just relly do not want to disuss these particular sins. I am sure they do not much care for Bill. Some Christians have a hard time dealing with Bill let alone the secular folk. As far as Bill being a hatemonger, I do not think so. I think what he hates is what God hates and that is sin and sin comes in many different shapes, forms and sizes. And I hate sin the way God hates sin also. Yes even hate comes from God, but the devil perverts all the things from God. Anger comes from God also but it is a righteous anger, sex came from God and here again it is perverted by satan. It was made for one man and one woman for life. But satan has lied to all and says take it anyway you think is right to you. WRONG! You take it anyway it is right to God. It is His invention and He gets to call the shots. And what is right to God is one man and one woman married for life.
Kellers distaste for "they suck each other’s dicks and screw each other in the butt" reminds one of Ted Haggard, who had the same problem with this type of activity. I'm curious if the author of this article, Eric Snider, noticed whether or not Pastor Keller was getting a chubby when he made that statement. Delightfully tacky.
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